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Discussions > General Topics > General Discussions > Breed my male Schnese

Breed my male Schnese

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brandy_leibel
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Hi I was wondering how I go about studding out my Schnouzer x Havanese? I really want a puppy and I know his breed is very rare in my area (they only seem to be breeding pugs, shihtzus and poodles). I really love the qualities of both Havanese and Schnouzers and it would be great if other people could enjoy them too :)
 
I'm in Halifax, so if anyone knows of someone or maybe some more information on breeding, it would be greatly appreciated!
 


setho212

To be honest, I don't think you should be studding out your dog. There are so many animals out there in shelters and on the streets that do not have homes that it would be irresponsible to deprive them of a possible home just because you want another dog and the mixed breed you like is rare.
 
That being said if you do choose to make the irresponsible decision, you should definitely speak to a vet and have your dog and the dog you plan to breed your dog with tested for all the genetic disorders that all the breeds are susceptible to. If any of the dogs are carriers I would not breed them as you are just taking a risk of having puppies who are not healthy.
brandy_leibel
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Yeah, thanks for the advice. I would plan on doing the testing, but I don't think that is my first step right now as I am still trying to find a suitable mate. I don't have the foggiest on how I go about do that.
Ps. the point about Schnese being a rare breed was meant to mean that they would all find homes quickly and for a good price, which ensures they are not just abandoned or given away. Not to mention they are hypoallergenic which is a hot commodity here :)
 
setho212

I have 2 issues with your response:
 
1) Why not test before you decided to breed your dog? If you find out your dog carries genetic disorders you wont need to go through the bother of finding a dog to breed with.
 
2) Your comment about getting a good price is extremely disappointing. Breeding dogs with a profit motive is a horrible thing to do. As I said before there are countless dogs out there in shelters and living on the streets that need good homes. It is pretty selfish to bring new dogs into this world just to make a profit while depriving those in shelters of a chance to find a loving family.
 
You should also be well aware of the fact that you have no clue what sort of puppies your dog will produce. A "Schnese" like all of the so called is not a true breed that is established enough to be able to produce offspring with predictable characteristics. That is why breeders who produce mixed breed dogs do so by combining 2 purebreds rather than 2 mixed breeds.
 
I think your first step before you decide to breed your dog is to educate yourself. Breeding dogs is not something that should just be done on a lark. You are bringing a life into this world which is a big responsibility. What happens if you have a litter with an undesireable puppy that you cannot sell? Are you prepared to take care of the dog for the rest of its life? Or are you going to just dump it off at a shelter or even worse have it put down?
sands904
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Thank you setho212 for chiming in on this topic. Brandy you should definitely take to heart the wonderful suggestions of setho212 as there are SOOOO many issues to think about before breeding your dog. Proper breeding is a life-long comittment and not just something to do because you want puppies or worse money....
 
You should be prepared with a large enough savings to pay for a c-section if needed which can cost upwards of $3000+ just incase the mother cannot pass the babies. You also have to consider the time and effort is takes to raise and find proper homes for the puppies. You will need to screen and possibly do home visits on the potential families. These are just some other areas that need consideration before you embark on this 'adventure'.
 
 
Best of luck in your desision!
brandy_leibel
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True enough. Although, I think I was not clear on the testing part of my response. Of course I'm going to get my dog tested when I find a mate for him, just not right now. I completely understand your opinions on shelters as I am a supporter of animal shelters as well (I volunteered for one in my teenage years). However, I don't see that breeding my dog is going to affect the local shelters here due to the precautions I am prepared to take. My view on selling puppies is, if you charge enough money for them, people will think twice about just throwing their dog away when they are sick of it. Poor people tend to get rid of their dogs, its rare people with money and a sense of responsibility put their burdens on others.
Secondly, I would like to make it apparent that I am not breeding my dog for the purpose of making profit. I am breeding my dog because I love his breed and I know the combination of his mix makes the perfect family dog. The only reason money was brought into the conversation was to prove a point about poor pet owners vs. wealthy or well-off pet owners. To validate my point through a comparison, I'm going to compare the policies of child adoption. Poor people can't adopt children. There are major restrictions on family income when adopting a child. Why do you think that is? Mostly because there are no 'child shelters'...this is why I say, the more you charge for your puppies, the least likely they are to end up in a shelter and the more likely they will be properly taken care of.
I completely agree with you about educating myself on the breeding subject. This is why I signed up for this website. I was unaware however, that this site is a bit bias towards designer dogs as the pure-breed sites are. I assumed that the purpose of this site was to educate owners on designer dogs like mine. I am honestly taken back by the unsolicited moralism on animal shelter adoptions. I hope that there is someone on here that is able to properly instruct me on finding a legitimate breeder.
Great debate though! :)
brandy_leibel
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Oh, maybe I forgot to mention that my dog is the male. I don't have to do anything for the female dog. That would be up to that dog's owners or it would probably be a prearranged agreement before any breeding takes place. I have been involved in breeds dogs before when I was young. My parents bred my Shih tzu and the only thing we had to worry about was when we got to pick out our 'pick of the litter'. So no worries on cost. Oh and I am well off, so I really am not concerned about the cost of breeding.
sands904
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Brandy, I didn't want you to take my comments the wrong way. I am not against you breeding your dog. I was just trying to help point out somethings for you to think about in addition to setho's comments.
 
It is true that this site is geared much more towards adoption vs breeding because of the unfortunate increase of 'backyard breeders' and 'puppy mills' in the recent years. We do not allow advertising of breeding, studs, etc because we have no way to screen people and we are trying to do any little bit we can to protect all the dogs out there. Unfortunately, the will of the bad have ruined it for the good...
 
If you do intend on studding out your male, then do your research, like you mentioned and find a female that is of very sound physical and mental health. People often forget about temerament and behavior when selecting a mate, but they are just as important as physical health. You don't want to breed overly shy or skiddish dogs as they have an increased tendency to produce shy and skiddish puppies. Fear is the root of much of the aggression seen in dogs.
 
Unfortunately, I cannot help you find a mate but I hope I have at least given you a few things to consider in your quest to find one. Best of luck and keep us posted on your search.
brandy_leibel
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I appreciate all of your help on this matter and I am a little more enlightened on breeding that I was yesterday, so don't feel like you have offended me. I enjoy a good debate :) It is too bad that breeders have ruined finding a good family dog for lots of people. I can completely relate to your comment about backyard breeders and puppy mills. I unknowingly bought my dog from a puppy mill and he came with worms that went untreated for much longer than it should have while he was in the care of this puppy mill. I feel like I rescued him from a terrible environment. I wish breeding could go back to the way it used to be when two healthy dogs produced one set of puppies for their life time and that was it. It seems like back then, breeders cared more about their dogs and didn't see them as an income. Its terrible now.
Mali_nut
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your dog is not a breed, it is a cross. So before deciding your 5 minutes of googling makes it a rare breed everyone will want, have a good think about it. Your dog will need tests for Progressive Retinal Atrophy, heart scan, patellas and hips checked by a properly qualified veterinarian. Also your dogs parents may be carrying genes for liver shunts, diabetes, pancreatitis, cataracts, bad legs and skin allergies just to name a few, which can be passed down to the puppies. Now is that fair?
 
As for price, I have  $3000 pedigree dog sleeping here next to me who was dumped to whoever wanted him - FREE. Why? He grew BIG and costed money to look after and stuff. Basically, the novelty wore off despite the owners fat wallet. I'm sure working in a shelter you have seen that plenty of times. Your dogs have a high grooming requirement and can be prone to costly diseases.
 
As for being hypoallergenic you have no scientific basis of that. I can tell you I am allergic to many of the crosses out there.
 
If you want to stud your dog you have to learn how to help him ... yes. You help him. You cannot just put 2 dogs together and hope for the best. If he cannot properly insert himself you have to guide him, sometimes the bitch will decide she wants out and while he is attached to her she will try to fight him, or him fight her. If they are 'tied' together and she runs away because she is inexpeienced (and you are too) she can damage his reproductive organs. Sometimes the penis also has trouble retracting which is one hell of a vet visit. Also mating can change your boys personality - any bitch in heat for miles will send him into a frenzy. If your dog is not well trained or contained you risk him challenging other males, escaping or even developing an attitude problem and a half.
 
People who do things the wrong way, or the cheap way, say dog breeding is easy. They're the ones who dont care about proper practices or ensuring the next generation is actually viable. Maybe you need to have a better think about what you're doing and lining your own pockets with cash.
samspups
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I am not against designer breeds at all consdidering I breed swiss shepherd x malamutes, but this sounds kind of risky to me? breeding a cross with another cross of unknown ancestory?

brandy_leibel
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Oh I see what your saying. Its because my dog is already a cross that breeding becomes risky. If I had two pure breeds it would be less risky? I heard somewhere that a crossbreed suffers much less health complications than pure breeds do.
But why do you say that the other breed is from unknown ancestry? I don't have any female dog lined up for mating yet. I would assume that if I do find another mating dog, the owners would know of its ancestry...wouldn't they? If they didn't why would I choose to breed my dog with that mate? It doesn't make any sense.
setho212

The reason "designer mixes" are not true breeds is that they do not produce consistent offspring. If you breed 2 golden retrivers together you know you will end up with a golden retriever. If you breed 2 Schneses or any other type of "designer mix" together there really is no way to predict what the offspring will be like. They can take any of the characteristics of the parents. The only way to develope a true breed is through many generations of selective breeding to develop a standard. I believe some people in Australia tried to develop a new breed by mixing golden retrievers and poodles (I could be wrong about the breeds) over many generations to develop a new breed of seeing eye dog but the results were not successful and the attempts were abandoned.
 
The lack of understanding about breeding in general and mixed breeds is what upsets many purebred breeders. Designer mixes are not true breeds. Breeding a Schnauzer and a Havanese together will not produce the same offspring everytime. By calling the offspring a Schnese and promoting it as having certain characteristics you are misleading those buyers who do not do their research. While it is certainly true that not all purebred offspring are exactly the same, the careful breeding over many generations that have developed these breeds has lead to certain characteristics that are common amongst most members of the breed. The same cannot be said of mixed breed dogs and certain cannot be said of the offspring of 2 mixed breed dogs.
brandy_leibel
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Wow, thank you so much for that last reply. That was really good information. I won't be breeding my dog, but I hope some day I'll find puppies just like him :)

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